Old Dad here with a New Car

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Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:55 pm

What have I gotten myself into?

My dad picked up this car five or six years ago for my brothers daughter. They ran it for one event and something on the clutch was loose and grenaded the front clutch/pully (on the engine). For whatever reason, my niece or her dad did not take an interest and the car sat in Dad's shop till last weekend.

What I do know about the car is it was built by students at the Helena College of Technology. It has a Clements engine, according to their website it is an Open Outlaw Tecuhmseh. It runs on alcohol. When my niece ran it the times were faster than my Malibu. I will need to slow the car down for my 10 yo daughter.

I don't see an option here to post pictures, we all know photobucket broke the internet, so what are the cool kids using to post pictures?
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby jtracr » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:14 pm

Hello and welcome to "the best way to blow your kids college fund" sport. First off study rule book, either NHRA or IHRA depending on your location. I would make sure everything is legal on the car itself before getting to far into it. As for motor, the tecumsah is a legal motor BUT you don't see them very much thus it might make it tough to get tuning help. IMO I would look for a used BZ or similar 8.90 motor to start off with.

This is a great sport. Find a event to attend and watch first. You will meet people willing to help, that is a big plus. Good luck and have fun.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby Pool Man » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:18 pm

If you have specific questions I am sure we can find a answer for you. Like was mentioned Tecumseh engines are not the norm and info is limited. Welcome to our world.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:04 pm

Shouldn't have much trouble with class legal stuff, we are a very small town track. Last year I thing there was four juniors. What I do need is to figure out what clutch parts I need to buy. I would also like to look into re-jetting or a new carb to run E-85 like my car.



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Dad's car

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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby Pool Man » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:12 am

Can not see the ramps real good but looks like as a minimum you are going to need a new faceplate, rollers and ramps. Looks also like it is going to need a real good cleaning
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:53 pm

Last night I saw the belt is stamped with the name "Polar" I gather that is a brand name of clutch, I will start there for replacement pieces.

What is the best way to limit the speed on this car? Throttle stop, gearing? I am not concerned with an index or anything we are just bracket racers out here.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby jtracr » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:17 pm

Yep that is a polar, still pretty simple to find parts. As for slowing down I use throttle stop gear and weight. We run a 7.90 motor in a 8.90 class. I put a 33 mm carb on alky and run it just over 1/2 throttle. We run a 5:1 gear and anywhere from 60-95 lbs ballist. It came out really consistent for us that way.
What carb is on it now? Most guys, like 99% run stright alky, the E85 works well with big cars but your better off on alky, IMO.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby martin6249 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:53 am

First measure the crank diameter. The Tecumseh Star coame with a 1" crank. That would be a bit of a special clutch. I think I still have a 1" output with a 5.5" fixed face if you need one, consider it a gift. If it has been turned down to 3/4" then regular briggs parts will work.

A Clements Outlaw Star will typically run mid to high 8's unless its had some additional magic done to it. Be careful when you get advice from Briggs guys. This thing is a torque monster and the idea of throwing gear at it to slow it down won't get you the results you're hoping for. They also ask for different ramps than what the briggs guys usually use.

Post a picture of the carb and intake. It's probably a Tillotson or possibly a Walbro. There will only be a couple of guys who can help tune. My advice on switching to E85 - DON'T! There won't be one single solitary guy on this or any karting forum that can help you. I probably have a dual port intake laying around that would allow you to switch to a Mikuni BN or possibly a flat slide if you want it. These motors come with carbs ranging from 30mm to as large as 46mm depending on the builder.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby 66CHEVELLE » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:09 pm

Didn't the Tecumseh engines have intake and exhaust opposite of what the B&S were?
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:18 pm

Sorry for the confusion guys, I spoke with Mike Clements, he built the engine in the early 2000s it is a Briggs Bloczilla. I mistakenly identified it wrong, not so good with the google foo smiley-embarassed . I appreciate the offer Martin! Anyhow, I have been staring and poking around the car every night and ordered the parts today to repair the drive clutch. The thing came with a care package with clutch goodies, ramps, weights and such, I don;t know what to use, there is only one set of ramps, I suppose I will put the lightest weights on assuming that will be the slowest way the sheaves come together on the drive clutch. There is a yellow spring in the driven and a black one in the care package. There is also another helix in the box.

Next I am going to tear down the carb and see how bad it is, I will post pics of the carb tomorrow. The fuel tank is aluminum and badly corroded inside, thinking of just replacing that with a plastic one I saw at Jegs, unless someone has an idea how to clean it out.

So the general consensus is no on the E-85? Just thought it was close enough to alcohol and be nice to run the same fuel as my race car.

Spent a little time on youtube yesterday and saw a vid from one of the members here demonstrating how to remove the belt, is this necessary to tow the car? Is the belt tight enough with the engine off to turn it over?

Overall I feel like a kid with a new toy, kind of how I felt building model cars as a kid, but this bad boy is going to make some noise soon! My daughter is pretty stoked too. smiley-blonde
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby WILD BILL » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:09 pm

Welcome to the POOL. smiley-wave

While I can't say removing the belt is mandatory, it will defiantly make it easier on you pushing the car in the staging lanes, and your pit spot. Not to mention it will save wear and tear on the belt. We do run them on the tight side as this is what allows the kids to ease off the brake and creep the car without having to use the throttle.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby dbbubba01 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:18 am

Get in touch with Randy at Halfscale. They build the Polar clutches and he can direct you as far as what set up you need.
I have experts on both coasts that I rely on.
You will get lots of opinions, so you will have figure-out what works best for you.
I was lucky early on that I befriended Racerpops (Rick Dailey) through a common friend just as he was ramping down his junior dragster operations.
He gave me a lot of advice and taught me the fundamentals of how the CV clutches work.

I am just starting our third year in junior dragster racing with my daughter and I am only now starting to really get a handle on clutch set up.
We just moved up to 7.90 an I barely had everything worked out with the new set up before the tracks closed for winter.
I still have some question marks, so I am anxiously waiting for everything to thaw out!

While I am not an expert, I will say that you don't want to necessarily run the lightest weights.
The weights limit your engine's RPM to a degree and you don't want over rev your engine.
There are known combinations that people use and those can be tweaked a bit.

Also, it appears that the clutch face plate and ramp holder came loose.
It may be the angle of the camera when the pic of the partially assembled clutch system was taken, but is there are clutch support side plate?
Get with Randy and make sure everything was assembled correctly.
The angles of the ramps should be stamped on the side of each ramp.

Does the car have an AIM Mychron (data recorder)?
The graphs that the AIM software can generate are the most accurate way to set up your clutch, belt, gearing combination.
It takes most of the guess work out of setting everything up.
I would be lost without being able to see the graphs.

Also, once you do find a combination that works... STICK WITH IT!
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:28 pm

Thanks for the point in the right direction Danny there is no sence trying to re-invent what others have perfected long ago. I do need the clutch side support, the one pictured is damaged and bent. I think I can re-use the bushings that are in the bearing. I have the clutch face plate and bolts and bushings for the rollers on order as well as a carb kit.


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Winter seems to have passed us by this year, yesterday my driver and I washed the car in preparation for new parts showing up.

Image
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:22 pm

Got a couple questions about the carb, in the first pic I have circled the drain cock and what I think should be the drain hole in the bottom of the bowl. The drain hole is plugged with what appears to be plastic or wax, I have put a small drill bit in and turned with my fingers an the swarf is not metal.

Image


In the second pic I have circled a small brass tube that may be an over flow tube, it had a small rubber plug in the top of it.

Image
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby WILD BILL » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:19 pm

That is a drain on the bottom. Could be gunked up.

FWIW, I never used it to drain my carbs. Just easier to pull the bowl and dump it.

The small brass tube is an overflow. Typically they are crimped shut.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:27 pm

Thank Bill, hopefully won't be too long before this thing makes noise.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby MobileHomie » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:22 pm

Couple more questions... smiley-help

How do I figure out what size/displacement the engine is?
Briggs Blockzilla is all I know.

How much and what kind of oil do I use?
I have read to drain and fill the oil after every event.

How do you determine chain deflection?
It would appear that chain tension is achieved by moving the engine forward or back.

The folks at Half Scale are looking for a primary cover and I have a new carb adapter on its way.

Thinking this may be crackling soon.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby WILD BILL » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:03 pm

MobileHomie wrote:Couple more questions... smiley-help

How do I figure out what size/displacement the engine is? Pop the head off and measure the bore and stroke and get back to us.
Briggs Blockzilla is all I know.

How much and what kind of oil do I use? Really depends on if the motor sits on an angle but typically anywhere from 8 to 12 ozs
I have read to drain and fill the oil after every event. Yep. Also, I will drain it even if it's only been warmed up but not made a pass such as an event getting rained out. Alcohol will absorb water out of the air and can and will cause rust inside the motor.

How do you determine chain deflection? With the driver in the car and the car on the ground, pick a spot about half way between the gears and either lift up or push down on the chain. You want to see about a 1/2" deflection or an 1" total movement.
It would appear that chain tension is achieved by moving the engine forward or back. That is correct.

The folks at Half Scale are looking for a primary cover and I have a new carb adapter on its way.

Thinking this may be crackling soon.



Is it running yet smiley-mrgreen
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby jtracr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:38 pm

As for oil type, I am a true believer of Lucas oil. They make an oil formulated for Jr's. With the alky/oil dilution going on you want the correct stuff. Look at the cost of a new engine? Is it worth it to save $50 a year and run Wal Mart oil and chance a $4000 engine? Buy the correct stuff.
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Re: Old Dad here with a New Car

Postby WILD BILL » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:40 pm

Thanks JT, I guess I missed that part of his question. smiley-duh smiley-lol

I also use the Lucas Jr oil. smiley-sunglasses
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